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Since Alexei and Joey share many similar experiences as longtime musicians and producers, this episode contains some musings about their shared experiences in the field such as writing styles, inspiration, tools and techniques, and the details that listeners don’t always notice.

Below are some highlights from the conversation. Tune in to Inside Egosoft on all major podcast platforms to listen to this episode, and watch out for a new one later this month!

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Getting Started with Egosoft
Joey: How did you first become involved with Egosoft, at the very beginning?

Alexei: It was a long time ago. As far as I remember, it was summer 2003. I was a big fan of space games and movies when I was a kid. My first gaming platform was the ZX Spectrum. The most famous space game on the ZX Spectrum was Elite. I would call it the grandma of all space games.

When I had my first PC, I got my hands on X: Beyond the Frontier, and I was really shocked. Finally, that was it - the one I'd always wanted. When they announced X2, I was following every piece of news, every update they had. But one day I thought, “No, I am a musician, and I have to do something.”

“We Don't Need Any Techno Music”
Alexei: I was brave enough to write to Egosoft and tell them how much I loved the previous games, how amazing they were, and how I couldn't wait for X2. I said that, as a composer, I would like to propose that they use my music. After several days, I got a response. They said, “Thank you very much for your feedback. We appreciate it very much, but sorry, we don't need any techno music.”

I suppose that was some kind of misunderstanding or mistranslation. I was brave enough to send my track anyway, and maybe one day later I got a reply saying, “Oh, we like that. We like that a lot, and we definitely will use that music in our game.”

Ten Minutes Before the Deadline
Alexei: Then in August, they were making a rolling demo for X2. It was a demonstration of the game's engine, and they needed four different tracks for it. But there was a catch. I had to do it in a very tight time period. I think it was something like two or three days. I still remember delivering the tracks about ten minutes before the deadline. That was August 2003, I think. I would say that was the first time, and the first day, that I started working on X2.

The First Track
Joey: Do you recall the original demo you sent them?

Alexei: The first track I sent them - the one they said was amazing - was a track called “Aurora.” You can find that on our X3: Albion Prelude soundtrack. I composed “Aurora” with my partner in crime, as I always say. His name is Pavel. We worked on trance tracks and electronic music tracks together, and he helped me a lot with composing “Aurora.” Before that, I hadn't sent any tracks. I had just said that I was making electronic music, and they thought I was making some kind of techno music.

What Has Changed Since 2003?
Joey: You've been a part of the musical identity of X for a pretty long time now. Looking back, has your approach changed much from your earliest work compared to today?

Alexei: To be honest, I don't think much has changed at all. I would say that software and hardware have evolved. Hardware is always changing, software is always evolving. But in my approach to sound design and music design, I don't think much has changed. You gain experience while learning all the new hardware and new software, and you never stop learning. If you stop learning, your music will start to stagnate and degrade. I think that's the most beautiful thing about our experience: we always have to learn something new.

Joey: You know, just the other day, I was actually talking about this over lunch with another friend of mine who's also a musician. We were talking about our old ideas, and how things I made when I first started - I almost wouldn't change anything about that. It’s the same brain. Musically, I’ve never really changed as a person. I love my old ideas. The only thing I would change, really, is that the mix would be a little better.

Alexei: People always say that we tend to love our first music genres when we are just 13 or 14 years old. Our taste is established around that age, and after that, we never lose that. It will evolve - it will change a little bit - but you still love all the music you loved back in your teenage years. The same is for music creation. I started composing back when I was 14, and after that, I think I still have the same core approach.

Shaping the Sound Together with Players
Joey: Do you remember a particular track from the early X games that made you think, “Yes, this is what X should sound like”?

Alexei: I don't think there's really one particular track, because it's a collaboration with the players. When you create something, you never know whether people will like it or not. But after some time, you get feedback from the players. You start to understand what people want to hear more of, what they don't like, and what kinds of compositions they appreciate more. So maybe it's a kind of collaboration with people afterward.

Writing Music Players Remember
Joey: How do you approach composing for a game where players can spend hundreds or even thousands of hours just existing in this universe?

Alexei: I don't think I'm doing anything intentionally. I just do what I feel is right. I'm not trying to attach myself to any specific genre or mood. What I'm trying to do is compose not just a track, but a song, with the structure of a song. I'm always trying to add some motif or idea that people will remember, and maybe they'll try to sing it without even noticing.

You may have noticed that a lot of game soundtracks nowadays are a bit forgettable. That's what I'm trying to avoid: making forgettable music.

Where a Track Begins
Joey: When you start writing a track for X specifically, how do you usually begin your process?

Alexei: It's always different. I would say it's a combination of processes. I try to talk to our designers - the people responsible for narrative, game design, and lore. We have a discussion, we talk, and then I start trying to compose. But even before that, I'm always trying to have many, many ideas collected in my head.

Even if I don't have a major task to compose a specific track, I'm always trying - morning, evening, midday - to sit at my keyboard and compose lots of ideas. If one of those ideas later connects with something we discussed, then I try to start a track from that.

Waking Up with an Idea
Joey: Maybe I wake up one morning and have an idea for something that sounds heroic, you know?

Alexei: Exactly! One of my tracks happened exactly like you explained. I was sleeping - or trying to sleep, but couldn't - and in my head I suddenly had an idea. I wanted to make a kind of choir with an electronic choir sound and make it completely as one. So I just woke up and started composing a theme.

Music and Player Emotion
Joey: How much do you think about things like player psychology or emotions when you're writing music?

Alexei: I don't think about psychology. I think about their feelings. I try to translate my own feelings through the music, and if people feel the same, I'll be happy. That's my goal.

Joey: Would you say you're trying to guide emotion when you're writing music for the game?

Alexei: I think the emotion I'm trying to produce through my music - the emotion I'm trying to convey to them - is about what that specific situation requires. If people in our company tell me they need this kind of track and this kind of emotion, I try to feel the emotion they're describing. I try to transform myself into that emotion.

“Positive Sadness”
Joey: Is there a favorite type of song for you, or a specific mood or atmosphere that you like to work with?

Alexei: One of my favorite kinds of sound or mood is what I call “positive sadness.” A lot of my tracks have that positive sadness. They're sad tracks, emotional tracks, but they're never completely dark or hopeless. That's my favorite thing to do. But the second one is the opposite. I love doing something like a full-blown orchestra - like Hans Zimmer - plus maybe guitars and something like that, with a full trailer-style sound.

The Signature Sound of X
Joey: Are there instruments or plugins that have become part of your “signature sound”?

Alexei: To be honest, the signature sound of X, I think, is the Virus TI - the Access Virus TI. That was the first hardware synthesizer I ever got. I would say it's the most versatile and one of the most beautiful-sounding synthesizers I've ever had. And yes, I would say that's maybe the sound of our game.

Time Restraints and Finishing Tracks
Joey: Does it come up often where you're working on music for X and think, “What if I remove this instrument and it fits the soundtrack better?”

Alexei: To be honest, I never do that. The most beautiful thing in our work is the time restraint. You always have to do something very fast, and because we have that time restraint, you don't have time to overthink things. Throughout all these years, I've learned one thing: always finish your track. If you start a track, you have to finish it. You have to have that kind of discipline in you. But if you overwork it - if you spend much more time than you should - you can ruin your track.

Joey: I have a personal style that drives one of my musician friends crazy. When I think I’m done with a song, I try to go through it and remove as many things as possible. It’s something I’ve done for many years. “Can I take out this drum kick? Can I remove this chord here?” Like I’m trimming the fat. He hates watching me work in the studio because I’ll delete things and he’ll say, “But that was really cool!”, and I’ll say, “Well, the message is the same even if it’s gone. So do I really need that part?”

Alexei: I have a friend - his name is also Alexei - and he has the same problem as you. He has a lot of demo tracks composed, but few of them are finished. Through all these years, I’ve learned one thing: always finish your track. If you start a track, you have to finish it. Work until you like it, but with time constraints, that’s the problem. If you overwork, you will spend so much more time than you have to, and you will ruin your track.

Electronic Music and Emotion
Joey: There's this notion that electronic music feels less human than physical instruments. Do you think electronic music conveys emotion differently? Worse? Better?

Alexei: Of course not. It won't communicate better or worse. It depends on how much you invest in that track. If you fully invest your emotions, your heart, and your soul into a track, any track can connect with people. Always try to put all your heart, soul, and compassion into the track. After that, even an electronic track can sound amazing.

Joey: I agree. I think that being authentic is the most important part. Someone can pick up a guitar and play a really uninspired pop song that’s superficially human, but it’s the same thing you’ve heard a million times.

Or someone could spend hours behind some synthesizers and program something that’s straight from their heart. Something that moves you, that makes you feel what they’re feeling. The most important thing is that you’re authentic and truly communicating your ideas.

Something I like to point out is that when I’m working on music - in my brain - I’m not making any mistakes in my ideas. People will point to older music where there’s less editing and say, “I like all the mistakes and sloppiness. It sounds more human.”

But, for me, when I’m imagining a riff in my head, there aren’t timing mistakes. It’s a perfect groove in my brain. It’s just that my body is limited. If I can edit a riff I recorded so that every chord is where I want it - that, to me, is also very human. It’s exactly my idea, with no limits.

I think people jump to, “Well, he quantized his drums, so he sounds like a robot.” Well, no, that’s what’s in his heart. That’s exactly what his idea is. That’s also authentic.

Alexei: Yeah, and sometimes, people will say, “Can you hear? He sounds like a robot!” when someone is playing amazingly. But when we try to do that… So we use randomizers and stuff.

Joey: That’s true. We end up using randomizers on the synths and pianos just to make the playing sound worse.

Three Instruments for the Next X Track
Joey: Say you have to make the next X song with only three instruments or plugins. What do you keep?

Alexei: Does the DAW count as software I have to include?

Joey: Oh, that'll be free. You have the DAW.

Alexei: Okay. Then it's a very, very easy question. The first one is the Virus TI, as I've already told you, because it's an amazing synth. The second one is the Korg Wavestate. It's a very interesting and intricate synth based on waveforms. And the third one, I would say, is the Nord Stage 4. That's my main keyboard. It has an amazing piano, amazing sounds for classic instruments like organs and Rhodes, and it also has an amazing synth engine. I think those three would work.

A Genre Still to Try
Joey: Is there a particular genre or musical direction that you haven't explored in X yet that maybe you'd like to experiment with someday?

Alexei: To be honest, I think we've tried a lot of stuff. So maybe something like Meshuggah. We can try that. Maybe later.

Joey: Oh man, I would love to hear “Bleed” while I'm in the middle of a dogfight. That would be so awesome. Definitely call me if you want to do something like that. I would love to break out my guitar and throw some riffs down.

Details Most Players Won't Notice
Joey: Is there a production technique that you use a lot that maybe listeners wouldn't notice you're using?

Alexei: One thing is little melodies from old tracks that people love. I'm using them very precisely and very subtly in small emotional moments. In one track I recently wrote, I had this idea for a theme using different instruments from Asia and the Middle East. The track starts with a chord progression that's usually associated with Middle Eastern music. Then the second part of the track uses a classical chord progression. If you know what I've just told you, the track completely changes for you. Most people will never notice it.

Joey: I’m excited to hear how you melded those styles since it sounds difficult to pull off. Those are very different writing styles.

Alexei: For our music and what we do for the game, I think it’s not that important to just follow the rules. My goal is not to follow the rules. My goal is to make people happy and make them listen to tracks that they want to listen to, and that I would like to listen to myself.

Breaking the Rules
Joey: I think it's useful to learn some theory, but only because it gives you ideas for how to bend the rules. Knowing the rules just lets you break them with style, I think.

Alexei: I don't even have a music school education. I always had to learn everything on the run. I always had to adapt to everything. One of my very good friends once told me something. He was a violinist. He said, “Alexei, if you had ever had a proper musical education, you would never have written the music you've written.” When you have that knowledge - when you know what you can do and what you can't do - that's amazing. But there's also something about being completely free.

Joey: I think we’ve discussed before how we’re both self-taught musicians. I learned things because I thought they’d be useful to me, but not much else. I think theory is most useful for giving you a vocabulary for your ideas.

Alexei: Yes, that helps a lot. That’s why I also learned some theory myself. Many good composers are completely classically trained, but look at Hans Zimmer: he is not, but he’s the biggest one in Hollywood. I think many people don’t appreciate him because he is like that, but because of that, he is very different from the others.

The Latest Track Is the Best One
Joey: As we look back at all the music you've made for the X series, is there a particular track or soundtrack that you're personally most proud of?

Alexei: To be honest, there isn't one particular track or big soundtrack I can name. I would say the last one is the best one. The last one I wrote was last week, and you'll hear it someday. Our listeners will too. I think it's just an amazing track. Just an amazing track.

Final Thoughts
Joey: Do you have any final words you'd like to share with listeners or people who play the games?

Alexei: I just want to say that I really love and appreciate your feedback. I love seeing what you're writing and commenting. Your feedback is what makes me make my music even better. Thank you very much, guys.


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